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Talk:Crocoburio Transformation
Worked this out last night: Updated articles, sorry for the formating:) * Further Note, when I was playing he only had 3 spells: Release, Crocobur (11-60 Neutral), Summoning a Crocodyl ** I lost the transformation with a glitch (2 people attacked me at same time I think) item? Whats that required item? --Evzenecek (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC) :It's statistics, not an individual item. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 11:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC) ::And that is? --Evzenecek (talk) 10:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC) :::Secret. EisttekcirCZ 12:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC) It requires certain items AND certain characteristics. I wrote somewhere else, but it seemed to have been deleted.. Look at The Legend of Crocoburio and the Crocoburio Items for clues. 01:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC) GuyWhoHasBeenCroco :In this thread, it is said quite clearly that Ankama doesn't want the conditions to become common knowledge. In fact, people can be sanctioned for revealing it... AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 08:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Incorrect. There is no rule by Ankama to stop people from sharing walkthrough such as can be found on this wiki. Although, since this is perhaps the hardest and least discovered secret in the game, many people do not wish to disclose the exact details of how to get the transformation. That being said, look at my above hint. I also found the exact answer published after I transformed, so it IS out there. Just need to find it. ;) (talk) 04:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC) GuyWhoHasBeenCroco Of course maintaining the Wiki so that it doesn't provide information... that's exactly what people spend their time updating this site to do. <_< Volunteer forum moderators are NOT Ankama staff members - their opinions are little more than opinions - there has never been any official word from Ankama regarding spoilers/sharing information. I for one don't see the harm in allowing people this knowledge on the main article - it's not a page that they would stumble across accidentally and I think, like most things, people who don't want the game spoiled would make the effort to solve the secret themselves. -DG :"Not a page people would stumble across accidentally"- have you heard of ? Anyone could find this page at any time. If the instructions are put up, what fun would there be in solving it? AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 08:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC) Well when me and a friend worked it out together, at first i was thinking 'Oh i'm gonna tell all my guildies and friends, this'll be sooo cool', but after 1 or 2 hours of painstaking research and efforts, when we finally figured it out and turned someone into crocoburio, i could see why it was a well kept secret, it was an amazing puzzle to solve and decypher, so what's the fun in putting a jigsaw puzzle together for someone else when they're in the process of doing it themselves? Sure it might help out a few people, get you famous in your server for being another one who worked out how to become the elusive Crocoburio, but what fun is it in spoiling it for other people and breaking the mystery of the puzzle and what is needed to complete it hmm? --Craig25 (talk) 11:17, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :It's an interesting argument this, however I'm in an agreement with DG. Ultimately this whole Wikia spoils the secret of the game, there is the information on how to reach many hidden areas which, for a long time, were unaccessable. Places such as the hidden room in Kitsou Dungeon for example. Not to mention all of the information it gives on all areas, whether it be a strategy for a Dungeon or what new Ore you unlock at 40 Miner, these are all things which people could easily discover for themselves but are listed on the Wiki. Why is Crocoburio any different, other than that it has somewhat of a reputation. If people want to find such secrets out for themselves I don't understand why they are browsing a Wiki, or even using Special:Random as might supposedly be the case. The Wiki is meant to be a source of information, when you begin to censor this you defeat the point of a Wiki. Galrauch (talk) 11:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::Good point. This is where I say: Poll? AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 12:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :::If it comes to a poll, I'd vote against it being revealed on here; knowing the secret doesn't give you any sort of advantage over other players, so it's not like people are actually losing out with it not being revealed. It's a secret for the sake of being secret, not a secret which makes you stronger or gives you some sort of advantage. If knowing it did give you an unfair advantage over those who don't know I'd say it's only fair for it to be revealed, but it doesn't, so I see no harm in keeping it secret, and it being revealed here just cheapens the secrecy. What's the point in there being any secrets in the game at all if they're not going to be secret? Armetia (talk) 17:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :::--------------- :::I'd personally be for making all secrets available to the people who are looking for them, but obviously it would be nice to prevent people accidentally stumbling on the page. Even with special:random... that's 1/8192+? chance... I'd have better chances dropping a Turq Dofus. :) I do not know the exact mechanics behind this Wiki, is it possible to add exclusions to that page, if not is there any spoiler markups that could be used? If this sort of information is deemed to sensitive for the Wiki to show to people then surely some other things should be removed... Dark Chest Entrance for example (after all a secret is a secret). Then again, when you start removing information from the Wiki (hoping people only use it for monster reference / gear info) it'll soon become much less useful than (already better catalogues on) www.dofus.com and the hundreds of threads on fan based forums. - DG What pray tell classifies a secret? There are all sorts of hidden things on Dofus, secret recipes, hidden spots the list goes on and yet these things are all openly found on the Wiki. Why? I've no idea, I see no difference between how to obtain Crocoburio and how to make a King Jellix's Crown. If we were to poll on this matter and were the poll to suggest that we should censor this information, though I'm sure Wikia is against censoring anyway, then it'd mean a lot more pages censored than just this. Galrauch (talk) 18:37, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :The thing about a king jellix's crown and the dark chest and stuff is that one is a whole piece of equipment and the other gets you some sort-of valuable stuff, both of which can give you some sort of advantage over someone who doens't know them. Also, the results of knowing those secrets are tradeable which kinda waters down the secrecy; if you see someone with a jellix crown or a guildalogem, it doesn't necessarily mean they know the respective secret, but someone with the crocoburio transformation? They do. Also, while this doesn't hold up for the dark chest, as far as I'm aware all the secret recipes in game are explicitly told to you by some NPC or book or something (except multijely which is more hinted at), but there's no NPC that say 'to get the crocoburio transformation, you must blah blah blah' or anything like that, so I see them as being different levels of secrecy. I dunno, sort of like hidden recipes, while hidden, are expected to become common-ish knowledge, whereas others aren't, or something. I think one of the points I'm trying to make is that it could hurt in some way someone to not know how to make e.g. multijely, but someone is not disadvantaged in any way for not knowing how to get the crocoburio transformation, so there's no reason, from the point of the wiki being to help people play the game, to reveal the solution here. Armetia (talk) 19:53, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::Meaning is given to the object, it is a virtual game after all so all value is deemed by the player themselves, so you cannot say for sure it has no effect on a players gaming, there might be someone who does feel that not knowing how to become a Crocoburio has a detrimental effect on their playing. This page does highlight one topic with Wikis in what should be included, there are many for example whos see no reason to list one shot celebrities on Wikipedia. Ultimately though I believe that the Wikia is meant to be a free bastion of information for those who want it. When you begin to censor stuff then who knows what it could ultimately lead to, Lumberjacks might remove information on rare, hard to find trees to safeguard their interests, epic players might remove information on higher spells, or remove tactics from Builds (Not that Builds have any ;P) and so forth all under the "notable secrets act", it could easily be a slippy slope to fall down. What I suggest for this topic is something similar to what Lirielle did in the past with some of the Beta information, we redirect it to a "Spoiler" page (Which I happened to have deleted ;-;) with a warning on the Spoiler page along the lines of "The information on this page is condidered some to be a notable secret on the game, viewing the information on this page might spoil your general gaming experience and reveal information you wish to discover for yourself. If you wish to discover this secret for yourself, please navigate away from this page." (Quite wordy I know but meh a work in progress). Anyways that's my best ideas for the matter, I believe this way those who don't want it spoiled can get away even if they do stumble on it and those who don't aren't denied access to it (Besides, if you really wanted to know a quick browse of IV can reveal it anyway). Opinions? Galrauch (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::--- ::Is my understanding correct if I were to think the argument against sharing this information is that should this wiki be primarily viewed as a help file then it goes beyond helping players? The front page defines the wiki as a Dofus encyclopedia which by its definition should be a collection of all knowledge of the subject. It is my opinion the wiki was created to document the knowledge people have of this game, there are ample support systems for people ask for help at the very least the wiki can be a fallback for people who can't get information anywhere else or figure out something themselves. While I do appreciate Armetia's arguements I do believe that there is a penalty to someone's game should they not be able to experience this transformation (if they would like to) - the penalty being the forfeit of the experience. ... Back to the article, if it is decided that explicitly revealing the solution is too much of a spoiler then surely the article can be improved to more heavily intimate how a player should solve the mystery of the Crocobur. Reference to the in-game literature, items and perhaps even quoting the blatant giveaway on dofus.com > http://www.dofus.com/uk/mmorpg/episodes/episode-4.html - DG :::Okay okay, I yield; I suppose you're right. Armetia (talk) 03:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC) The real question now then is how to record the information then. It's obvious from the responses here that there should be some way to stop any "accidental" discovieries of the secret, so whether this be by limiting the information there to give helpful pointers, or by doing something similar to the above suggestions is another matter for discussion. Galrauch (talk) 09:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Poll ;Should the method of obtaining Crocoburio Transformation be listed on the wikia? Please sign the option you prefer. One vote only, please. ;No ;Yes ;Yes, but in a -- AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 09:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC) ;No, but it should be stated that it is kept secret ;No, but hinted at ";No, but it should be stated that it is kept secret" I would like to chose this because, people like me and my friend who spent hours of our time researching and testing our theories on the Crocoburio Transformation, along with dying multiple times due to furry evil things with spears in large mobs far beyond our level, well our efforts would be in vain if, for instance, a randomer can find the secret in a simple second of reading whereas the people who found it out took ages trying to figure the secrets of the mysterious transformation out... --Craig25 (talk) 11:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Oh and also, this has been kept secret for a very long time, and people have tried hard to keep it a secret, letting people know after all that hard work has taken place would be an insult to any player with the knowledge that has tried to keep it an underground mystery --Craig25 (talk) 11:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Yes, but it should be in some Spoiler-esque form. As has been stated before, a Wikia is designed for storing all information on Dofus. As I've said before, it's a slippery slope when you begin to censor things on a Wikia and it goes against the whole idea of a Wikia. The people at risk from this whole thing are those who want to discover it for themselves. Those who are just lazy buggars aren't an issue, because ultimately this Wikia is designed to help people and tell them information which they'd be otherwise too lazy to bother go get and to be frank you can easily find it in a myriad of other sources *coughs*. Whilst I understand that some people like the idea of it all being a big secret and what not, there are many things I'm sure which you've been told which were once considered in a secret and so, arguably, it is quite a selfish thing to do, not to impart your wisdom onto those who would like to know. Thus my vote goes for that it should be included in the Wikia, but in something similar to the Redirect idea I proposed earlier. Galrauch (talk) 11:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC) I abstain. Armetia (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Yes, but in a My opinions pretty much mirror those of Galrauch. Seeing as this is something will not affect other people's gameplay (even if they previously kept it a secret) I don't see reason to hide it. I'll just add that if this is censored I can make a few suggestions on other secrets that should be discovered by people only on the back of their own efforts (damage calculations, critical hit formula, prospecting rules, secret recipes, quest information... heck, everything that isn't explicitly listed on www.dofus.com) - DG (the whiner) :For what it's worth, damage calculations, critical hit formula & prospecting rules have all been revealed by ankama at some point, and secret recipes are (as far as I know) all but one (multijely) explicitly revealed by various NPCs, so that'd be my counterargument. Quests are a bit of a grey area with regards to those arguments. Armetia (talk) 00:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC) ::Fair observation, a lot of those things have been mentioned briefly in recent changelogs. I'm sure some of the other secret recipes have no information in-game (desire ball cloak as an example). A lot of those things were discovered and posted here before any acknowledgement by Ankama, either way I just want what's best (and fairest) for the majority of the community. -DG Are you all kidding me? I'm the guy who posted above, saying I got the transformation and had a jolly good time with it. I myself, along with a few other people, have disclosed they OBTAINED the transformation. However, it was our choice not to disclose anything more than subtle hints. That being said, there's nothing stopping me from putting up detailed instructions on what exactly to do, in order to obtain Croco. Nothing stopping me, as the Wiki is for everyone to contribute. Croco is part of the game, this Wiki is about the game, therefore there is absolutely no problem from me posting the instructions. If someone, even volunteer admin, deletes the article, they are breaching the rules of wiki's. The most you can do is add spoiler tags or such, but if such an instruction list were to ever appear on Wiki, it must stay. (talk) 01:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC) GuyWhoHasBeenCrocoAndThinksThisIsAllLulz-worthy :Excuse me, we never said we were going to delete an article. However, if the consensus is to not put the information on how to obtain the transformation up (and the consensus will hopefully come from the community), then we will revert anyone who does put it up. If the consensus it to put it up, we will revert anyone who removes it. If the consensus is spoiler tags... then spoiler tags it shall be. Etc, etc, etc. If you would like to have a say in this, please vote in the poll further up the page (instead of under it as everyone else seems to have done). AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 02:52, October 3, 2009 (UTC) ::So far, 3 votes for spoilerbox or similar, 1 for saying that it's a secret. 4 votes doesn't really make a consensus. Anyone else out there who's reading this feel they have something to contribute? This poll could go on for a looooong time... AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 11:08, October 6, 2009 (UTC) : Yes, but with spoiler tags. There's no need to keep the info hidden here. After 5 minutes searching on this wiki, I already know which items are needed and how to obtain then, so if someone really wants to know how to transform, he will find out. So why keep the info hidden? Koentjuh1 (talk) 12:06, October 6, 2009 (UTC) I quit playing dofus and I thought, why not posting the right characteristics to become Croco: You can check it if you want, I forgot what items needed to pull the sword out, but that are the points you need. (talk) 08:05, October 7, 2009 (UTC)Brambeltje (talk) 08:05, October 7, 2009 (UTC) :Sorry about putting that in a spoiler, but spoiler seems to be the consensus at the moment. Please, no-one post it again. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 09:34, October 7, 2009 (UTC) Yes for revealing the information. I don't think a spoiler is necessary because users of this wiki are used to spoilers, especially those who would click "Random Page". But revealing with spoiler tag is still better than trying to keep it secret on the wiki. Hagabaka (talk) 02:23, October 9, 2009 (UTC) This whole Wikia is a spoiler isn't it? :P Anyways, I wanted to put the information in a spoiler but I suck in doing things with codes. (talk) 10:47, October 9, 2009 (UTC)Brambeltje (talk) 10:47, October 9, 2009 (UTC) :The thing about spoiler tags is it will keep almost everyone happy. Next problem: can people actually put their votes under the option they have chosen? It will make it a lot easier to tell how many people have voted for what. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 11:19, October 9, 2009 (UTC)